In Theory: Did Phoenix leaders answer Satanists’ prayers?

Opening prayer is now banned at city council meetings in Phoenix, Ariz., prompted by a group of Satanists who sought to deliver an invocation of their own.

Members of the Phoenix City Council voted to end the traditional prayer at the beginning of meetings and instead open with a moment of silence.

The decision came because while the lawmakers had allowed prayer to open meetings, they cannot control the content of those prayers. So when members of the Satanic Temple were due to deliver an invocation this month, the council wrestled with the idea, but ultimately voted to drop prayer altogether.

NEWSLETTER: Stay up to date with what’s going on in the 818 >>

Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton argued trying to silence a particular faith has legal ramifications the city would rather not deal with.

“The 1st Amendment to the Constitution is not ambiguous on this issue,” Stanton said, according to the Arizona Republic. “Discriminating against faiths would violate the oath that all of us on this dais took. I personally take that very, very seriously.”

Gregory Lipper, a senior attorney at Americans United for Separation of Church and State who has represented the Satanic Temple in previous legal battles, said the council made the right decision, but took issue with their reasoning.

“They’re saying, ‘we don’t like their prayers, so we’re going to shut the whole thing down,’” Lipper said. “It leaves a bad taste in the Satanist’s mouth.”

Others argue that ending prayer is exactly what the Satanists wanted.

Q: Do you agree with the Phoenix City Council’s decision to end opening prayer?

The Constitution is clear that no one group can be singled out to be prevented from leading a prayer of their making in public. Therefore, the council has no other choice than to cancel the invocation.

However, when I went to a public elementary school in Yonkers N. Y., my teachers led public prayer. Well, at least they led us into a moment of silent reflection. We now do that in my congregation and it is one of the most powerful ceremonies. But if the town elders want some degree of control over the prayers, perhaps they could have a one-line preview idea sheet sent to the clergy who will be doing the invocation/benediction. For example, if a flood has devastated the town, the elders could request that the clergy not pray for rain that week.

Rabbi Mark Sobel
Temple Beth Emet
Burbank

--

For the record, the Satanic Temple is a nontheist belief and recognizes Satan only as a metaphor to represent the universal fight against tyranny, says Lucien Greaves, the founder. They also value rationality and compassion.

How that is offensive to some in Phoenix is a puzzler to me, but ending public prayer seems a worthy outcome of their narrow-mindedness. Surely no one can object to a moment of silence instead, during which anyone is free to pray silently however they please ... or not. I strongly agree with Greaves that religion is “not the business of a government body anyway.” City leaders should stick to their elected, secular duties of providing good governance.

Last time I was in the audience at a Glendale City Council meeting there was a fairly steady stream of little electronic chirps, dings and beeps. Maybe a silent moment can also be dedicated to shutting up the annoying gizmos, our new talismans.

Roberta Medford
Atheist
Montrose

--

As commentators elsewhere have noted, the Satanic Temple’s application to offer public prayers probably was disingenuous from the outset since, as stated on their website, adherents don’t actually believe in Satan or any other “supernatural” deity.

Given that they acknowledge no god, it is doubtful that prayer was their goal. More likely, their primary purpose was to disrupt the Phoenix City Council’s tradition of having an opening prayer, either by generating controversy through their participation or by creating a legal confrontation.

The LDS church hasn’t taken an official position on the council’s decision. In my view, council members were right to avoid a costly court battle that they probably would have lost. They also were right to avoid the circus that the Satanic Temple would have created had they been given the opportunity to pray.

While the Satanic Temple does not believe in a supreme being, members are encouraged to “embrace blasphemy as a legitimate expression of personal independence from counterproductive traditional norms.” They have done this in public demonstrations that mock Christian rituals and clergy. Both of these things suggests what kind of prayer the group would have offered.

We are fortunate to have a legal framework that allows people of vastly disparate beliefs, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and even Satanism, to co-exist. It is unfortunate that the Satanic Temple chooses to use this extraordinary freedom to disrupt the practice of faith by others.

Michael White
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
La Crescenta

--

I am sorry to hear that yet another venue where God is called upon to aid in the rightful governing of human affairs has been silenced.

I would think that if the Phoenix City Council were comprised of Christians, then only Christian invocations would do.

If there were members of other religious persuasions, then perhaps a silent invocation is in order, as no true Christian can say “Amen” to a prayer delivered in the name of Satan, Allah, Buddha or any other. To the Christian, these are not God, and bowing to them is blasphemy.

So only in unanimous faith can a Christian invocation render its due effect to those sitting in agreement, but the true God to whom it is delivered will gladly bless the petitioners even if unbelievers are in attendance.

It is whether or not unbelieving attendees will sit still for it. But in this case of Satanists, let me point out two glaring points that should have us simply dismiss their group forthwith.

First, Satanists don’t believe in God, so how can they qualify to give the divine invocation? Who will they invoke? If you think it would be Satan, you would be wrong, because to them, he does not exist. The devil is the Christian’s nemesis, and it is our Bible from whence he is co-opted by the cult. They believe Satan is an idea, not a person, and certainly not God. This being the case, how can Satanists stand in the queue for council invocations?

Secondly, the invocation is not for the public, so why does every aberrant group think it has the right to be heard? Prayer is not a show nor an equal-opportunity endeavor that displays irreligious tomfoolery or calls upon mythological deities.

If there is to be an invocation, the invoker must believe it falls upon viable, all-capable ears, otherwise they are disqualified.

And if anyone in the council itself cannot countenance the God to be invoked, then let there be a private moment, and I shall invoke Christian prerogative and beseech the governors to loudly and audibly proclaim Christ in their private and individual invocations. Satanists will follow their namesake to oblivion, but let’s not allow them any room to take our earthly communities with them.

“It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor” (President George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation, 1789).

Rev. Bryan A. Griem
Tujunga

--

The Phoenix City Council should not have banned the practice of invocations.

In a free society people will occasionally do and say things which are generally disagreeable. That’s one of the costs of freedom. And sometimes the best tactic is to let fools speak and reveal how foolish they are.

Shake your head, roll your eyes and get on with life. Nobody else in the meeting would have had to pray in their hearts along with them. If the Satanists had been allowed to pray at meetings no doubt Christians in attendance would have prayed instead to our father in heaven and would have been heard by him.

It’s no surprise that the actions of a group of Satanists would result in the limitation of everyone else’s freedom. Whether or not Satanists believe in a literal spirit being called Satan, the Bible affirms the reality of his existence.

They have in fallen into “the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will” (2 Timothy 2:26). What does Satan do? Jesus told the Scribes and Pharisees of his day: “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and … a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44). The Satanists have believed his lies and are doing his desires.

Satan is an adversary to humanity. He is a spiritual thief and robber, whose work is, as Jesus taught, “only to steal and kill and destroy” (John 10:10). Satan was just allowed to get away with grand theft in Phoenix. In contrast, Jesus said, “I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.” Life and freedom come to all when Jesus Christ is honored and welcomed. Salvation is his gift to all who receive him through faith in his crucifixion and resurrection.

By the way, the content of city council meeting invocations is regularly controlled and edited. Christians, myself included, cannot pray “in Jesus’ name” when we bring the invocation at our Burbank City Council meetings due to a lawsuit which our city lost. Our courts thus regularly violate Christians’ freedom of speech and religion. But I give invocations anyway, because I know who I’m praying to. He is sovereign and good willing to bless all who call upon him.

Pastor Jon Barta
Burbank

--

Yes, I do agree with the Phoenix City Council’s position of ending prayers altogether. And maybe it was the Satanists’ plan to have the practice of praying before a meeting discontinued.

But had the council allowed some faiths to pray and others to not, the city would probably have been sued. I don’t like advocating for not praying — but the Satanist group has pushed me into that position. I also realize that the Founding Fathers of our nation probably had no idea that a Satanist group would ever raise its (ugly?) head, but that’s where we are in this stage of our country’s development.

I just had an idea: have the City Council reinstate the practice of praying before the meeting, and even invite the Satanists to pray first. Then take all kinds of pictures and record what the Satanists say and plaster those prayers across the media.

See what kind of public outcry there is, and I’m betting there would be plenty! Of course, then the council would have to broadcast and print what the other faiths prayed — but maybe it would be worth the effort.

And I just had another idea: how about a moment of silence before every council meeting? That way those who want to pray may do so silently, and those who don’t may enjoy a quiet moment before the meeting begins. Voila! Problem solved.

The Rev. Skip Lindeman
La CaĂąada Congregational Church
La CaĂąada Flintridge