Clearly, something about Vanessa Kirby screams “royalty†to directors. In 2016 she broke out with her Emmy-nominated role as Princess Margaret in “The Crownâ€; now she’s skipped across the Channel to portray Empress Josephine Bonaparte in Ridley Scott’s new release, “Napoleon.†Between those regal roles she racked up serious industry cred, including earning a 2021 Oscar nomination for playing a woman in the throes of childbirth in “Pieces of a Woman.†But as she tells The Envelope via Zoom, Josephine — whose life with Napoleon is the stuff of romantic legend — was a unique challenge, one she assumed nearly at the last minute … and one she happily sacrificed her holidays for.
You took over the role of Josephine in “Napoleon†after Jodie Comer dropped out not long before production started shooting. How did you manage to cram all of that preparation in before having to play her?
It was just before Christmas [of 2021], so I didn’t have that long to prepare — and I had to catch up. That meant canceling all my plans, staying home on New Year’s Eve. On Christmas Day I was reading these books on the sofa — usually, I’m helping everyone. I just said, “Guys, this year I have to sit here and get through these books on Napoleon and Josephine!†I knew I couldn’t turn out unprepared — it would be my nightmare.
Joaquin Phoenix and Vanessa Kirby mutually agreed to do whatever they felt like doing to infuse spontaneity into ‘Napoleon,’ Ridley Scott’s historical drama.
Some actors won’t do a lot of reading prep because they only want to perform what’s in the script. But it sounds like Ridley Scott gave you a wide berth to interpret Josephine?
Ridley was never prescriptive. The amount of things he was overseeing! I think he trusts you to do what you need to do. I’d played a real person before, in “The Crown,†and he loved that process. With Margaret, it was clear who she was from the minute she was born, practically. Whereas Josephine — I didn’t have any footage like I had with Margaret. Every account was so wildly contradictory to the last. So many facets of her personality shifted, I couldn’t add them into one clear whole.
Other than books, what helped?
I went to her house and museums and her tomb. Compared to Napoleon’s tomb — which takes up a huge amount of space and is really involved — hers is an hour and a half outside of Paris in the far right corner of a tiny church. It’s really small and tucked away; you won’t be able to see it unless you find it deliberately. It’s those things that inform you of her position and her life. I can only ascertain that she must have had an extraordinary ability to shape-shift and become chameleonic. That kind of mercurial energy is hard to embody as an actor because it’s unknowable, it’s not one consistent thing.
For good or ill, historical perception is often altered by pop culture interpretations. Does it matter how accurate a film — or a TV show like “The Crown†— is to recorded history?
Everyone has their angle and perspective based on their position in life and their lens on the world in these books [about Josephine and Napoleon], so it’s an interpretation. It’s imagined. You can take the same play — a “Macbeth†— and each interpretation will be different than the rest, even if the text is the same. When you play a character, people may interpret it in so many ways; you cannot even hope to be singular with that.
What was it about Josephine that kept Napoleon attached to her, even after the divorce?
There was something unknowable about her. He could go and conquer all this land and own these different square miles and material — but he could never quite get hold of her. That evaded him.
In the film, a lot of your performance is silent, or with facial expressions. Was Josephine like that?
Her life gave me the impression that she had this quiet power in her resilience. She was withholding a lot of the things she thought and felt, because part of her survival instinct was to be internal. That was the unknowable quality Napoleon couldn’t get hold of. Whereas Margaret was the opposite — she said what she thought within two seconds of feeling it.
What impression are you left with about Napoleon and Josephine? Were they codependent? Lovers for the ages? Did she even like him?
It’s one of the strangest and most unconventional relationships I’ve ever learned about. You had this military commander rushing to his tent to write these ecstatic, almost teenage letters — meanwhile, she’s having an affair with a 23-year-old and ignoring them all. I do feel like there was this incredibly deep love, I just don’t know if it ever healed them. There was this recognition in each other I wanted to capture when they see each other for the first time: There’s something I recognize in you. That would beat anything else, which is why it was an unconventional, codependent romance for the ages in some ways.
Speaking of “The Crown,†do you still watch?
Yes! All my friends are involved in it. Elizabeth Debicki [who plays Princess Diana] has been a sister for a long time. I can’t wait to sit down this weekend and watch [the new season].
You were succeeded as Margaret by Helena Bonham Carter and Lesley Manville, two acting legends. Has there ever been a meeting of the Margarets?
Not yet! I cared so much about Margaret, and I know Helena and Lesley felt the same. We keep meaning to meet up! I feel like we will.
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