Lessons in Justice

By ANNA GORMAN

April 6, 1999 12 AM PT

TIMES STAFF WRITER

OXNARD — “How many of you have watched ‘NYPD Blue’?” Oxnard Det. Joe Chase asked a group of Camarillo High School students on a recent afternoon.

The students raised their hands.

“What do they do to the suspects?” he asked.

“They beat them up,” one student yelled.

“Well, it doesn’t happen like that here,” Chase said. “We don’t do that. We can’t even touch them.”

Camarillo and Oxnard high school students participating in a countywide field study are learning that the real-life criminal justice system doesn’t work like it does on television. The message from law enforcement officials is that police officers don’t clobber the bad guy and throw him in jail, and suspects aren’t arrested, tried and incarcerated within one hour.

“All those cops shows just show the fun stuff--the action, the chases,” 17-year-old Camarillo High School senior Andrew Goldstein said. “This has allowed me to see some of the behind-the-scenes stuff.”

Twelve junior and senior high school students are spending about 30 hours outside the classroom during March and April researching how a criminal case is processed in Ventura County--from start to finish.

They are meeting with county law enforcement officials, including the district attorney, the public defender, judges, and probation and police officers. They are visiting the jail, looking through evidence, reading probation reports, attending a sentencing hearing and going on a ride-along with an Oxnard police officer. At the end of the field study, they will turn in an essay on their experiences and what they’ve learned.

County and school officials said the program gives students a first-hand look at how the criminal justice system works and lets them explore careers in the field. Rather than just reading about the system in textbooks, the students are getting hands-on experience.

“This is a tremendous opportunity for the kids,” said Jim Steele, who teaches a criminal justice class at Camarillo High School. “It’s a real insider view, something that few kids get to see.”

Although the program was only open to juniors and seniors from Oxnard and Camarillo high schools, officials hope to expand it next year.

Andrew, who volunteers as an Explorer Scout for the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department, said he wants to be a patrol officer. But after talking to Oxnard officers and detectives, he said he understands that he may be in for long hours, crazy shifts and a lot of paperwork.

“This has really opened our eyes,” he said. “It’s been cool to get a hands-on experience because we get to ask questions and get them answered by the people who know.”

Allen Hollowell, 18, a senior at Oxnard High School, said the program has helped him understand how attorneys and police officers work with victims and witnesses. He said the program also has affirmed his desire to have an exciting job. Hollowell said he wants to become a judge.

“There are a lot of corrupt and negligent judges who accept bribes,” he said. “I would like to make a difference by becoming a judge. And in my courtroom, that wouldn’t happen. Justice would be served.”

While at the Oxnard Police Department, the students toured the jail and the evidence room and looked through a murder book. They also talked to detectives about how evidence is gathered, how an investigation is conducted and how suspects are interviewed.

As Chase showed the students photographs and tapes from one murder case, he compared investigations to puzzles. “It’s all about putting the pieces of the puzzle together,” he said.

At the probation department, students talked to officers about how they write pre-investigation reports, supervise criminals in the community and decide on the conditions of probation.

Senior Deputy Probation Officer Gary Babb said he wished something like the program had been available when he was younger and he didn’t know the difference between jail and prison, probation and parole.

Greg Totten, chief assistant district attorney, agreed.

“If you would have asked me back then what the difference was between a prosecutor and any other type of attorney, I wouldn’t have known,” he said.

Jonathan Robbins, a 17-year-old Camarillo senior, knows the difference. He has wanted to be a trial attorney for years.

While at the Police Department, the students went around and said what they wanted to do in the future. When it came to Jonathan, and he said he planned to be an attorney, Det. Lisa Ragone said jokingly, “You can leave the room now.”

Then, reconsidering, she asked him: “Well, wait, what side?”

When he answered district attorney, Ragone laughed and said, “OK, you can stay.”