Children of Prop. 187

Two years ago, Proposition 187 sparked fierce political and social debate across Southern California. Central to the measure’s argument was the notion that illegal immigrants clogged the health care system, took jobs and burdened classrooms.

Proponents of the controversial initiative suggested that newcomers were straining Los Angeles County’s fraying net of social services. But a new study by two Harvard University social scientists disputes the claim. From random samples of whites, native-born Mexican Americans and more recent immigrants, Marcelo and Carola Suarez-Orozco turned up interesting results about the attitudes of immigrant children.

For instance, the sampling of 189 children found that newcomers viewed education more positively than whites and children born in the United States. The survey questions ranged from inquiries about attitudes toward teachers to whether children believed a proper education meant a better future.

Each time, the immigrant students were found to view school as their ticket to a better life. To get a glimpse of the survey’s findings, Times staff writer Frank B. Williams talked to four recent immigrant students at James Monroe High School in North Hills.

The four students, 18-year-olds Martha Rincon and Alejandro Maciel, and 15-year-olds Diego Cervantes and Anayeli Orea, have lived in the United States for between two and five years. Vice Principal Alice Parris and 24-year-old teacher’s assistant Gabriela Garcia joined the conversation. Garcia was born and raised in this country.

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Question: Is there a difference in the way you look at education compared to the kids who were born in the U.S. or have lived here most of their lives?

Diego: The kids who have spent more time here or who were born here look at school as if it was nothing. I think the main part is the parents. The reason why they act up is because their parents don’t pay attention to them. And they find friends or protection in something like gangs. Their friends do something and they want to do the same thing. Like when I see kids wasting food, I think that’s bad. In other countries, it’s really bad to do that because people don’t have any. And here it’s a regular thing people do.

Anayeli: A lot of parents talk to their children, but the children don’t listen. When I was in junior high, I was always fighting and dressing with baggy pants. My mom tried to stop me, saying somebody might think I am in a gang. But a lot of parents become tired.

Q: Your friends who have been here a while, what changes them? Is it their parents, movies or television that has affected their attitude? What is it?

Anayeli: When kids come here they know the laws are easier and they can use it against their parents.

Garcia: It’s the atmosphere. When you come from another country over here, you are dressed different. People point you out, and they don’t want to be your friend because you are not hip. You’re not wearing this or you don’t speak this way.

Diego: Where that comes from is their friends. I have friends who I have known for five years who have never liked gang things or wearing baggy clothes or stuff like that. My friends, we go out and follow everything by the rules and still have fun. But other kids just take advantage of the laws here.

Parris: Had you seen movies or television in your home country that gave you an idea of what it would be like here?

Anayeli: I thought I was not going to have to go to school no more. I am going to live in a house. I’m going to have someone to bring me my lunch in my bed. But when I came here, I was like “this is it?�

Q: Why do you think kids who have been here longer don’t care about school as much? The study I told you about earlier said 84% of recent immigrant students said education was “the most important thing in my life.� While 40% of whites and 55% of Mexican Americans said school was No. 1. Any ideas about those numbers?

Diego: It all comes back to the parents. The way the parents treat the child is the way the child will treat them. My parents are very strict.

Rincon: Whites don’t care about education and school because of their friends.

Anayeli: They just want to have fun with their friends doing DPs--ditching parties. Young people just want to have fun. But in the future, they are not going to finish school. And they are going to say ‘Man, when I was young I was always ditching and never studying. Now look at me, I’m nothing.’ Kids that are born here have more opportunity than us but they don’t care about it. And they waste it. Immigrant people, they want to have opportunities.

Diego: You know what I always think whenever I see homeless people? They are always begging for money, but they have more rights than we do. We just got here. It’s easier for them, who were born here, to get a good education. It’s even harder for us who are trying to get a good education.

Garcia: Parents are afraid of their own kid once they get here. Some immigrants who have been here only two years start to dress like gang members and have no respect for no one because they see this from the other kids. I can point out the students that are good students and good kids because of what their parents are teaching them.

Q: Is school more important than helping your friends? Let’s say a friend wants to talk to you about a problem he had with his girlfriend and you have homework that has to be done before 10. What would you do?

Anayeli: When I am doing my homework, a lot of friends call me. And I tell them that they have to call me later. They get surprised that I am doing my homework. The parents have to have rules in the house. Like turn off the television at 9:30 and go to bed, or clean up the house. That’s the way parents and kids can understand and respect each other better.

Q: What do you think of Proposition 187? Is it true that immigrant children are causing a problem by crowding the schools and taking away public services from U.S. citizens?

Diego: Actually, they should look at two different kids. The ones who really care and the gangsters. Look at academics. The people who are immigrants and doing bad in school, those are the ones who should have to go.

Anayeli: Some of the immigrants really care about being something in the future. Government is just wasting money on some students. I heard that they are tired of spending money on students that don’t study. What about the people that are trying hard?

Q: When you think of a teacher, what do you think of?

Anayeli: A teacher is someone who is going to teach you something good for your own life. A lot of students don’t respect their teachers.

Q: How do you keep education as the most important thing in your life if you are not getting it from parents? Or if your friends are trying to lead you away from it?

Alejandro: They tell me I won’t get ahead if I don’t work hard in school.

Anayeli: My mom said, ‘If you want to go to college, I am going to try my best to help you. I don’t want to see you working in a restaurant or something like that. I want you to have a career.’ It’s probably because she didn’t finish school, and she doesn’t want me to be like her. She wants me to have a career.

Garcia: You want to be accepted. Everybody wants to be accepted, so you go with the flow. The weak ones are the ones that follow that flow. The smart ones, the ones that love each other and do have goals in life, don’t follow that flow.