Q&A; WITH TERRY MURPHY AND BARRY NOLAN : Extra! Extra! A More Sensitive ‘Hard Copy’!

I n all-upper-case letters, the advertisements announce:

“THE NEW SPIRIT OF ‘HARD COPY’ ISN’T JUST BASED ON WHAT WE’VE TAKEN OUT, IT’S BASED ON WHAT WE’VE ADDED.” And “OUR NEW EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS WANT US TO BE VERY GOOD, BUT NOT SENSATIONAL.”

The death of sleaze? The taming of television’s turgid tabloids?

Now in its fifth season, the half-hour, syndicated “Hard Copy” is vigorously advertising change. One change: the hiring of two women as co-executive producers, Linda Ellman, formerly of “Entertainment Tonight,” and Linda Bell Blue, previously senior supervising producer for “Hard Copy.”

The case for change is explained by “Hard Copy’s” co-hosts Terry Murphy and Barry Nolan, who have been with the show since its 1989 start.

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Question: Recent trade advertisements talk of taking out something from your show. What’s gone?

Nolan: We took out a guy as executive producer and we have two women. It’s the only show I know of that has two women in the decision-making, managerial, executive office. Our new producers have brought a sensibility and a sensitivity to the story-selection process and editorial judgment, eliminating some things that males tend to go, “What’s wrong with that?,” but can be offensive to half the population.

Murphy: We’ve taken out trailer-park murders and big boobs. We’ve taken out a lot of those kinds of gratuitous-type stories. I frankly now can allow my children, 5 and 9, to watch the show.

Q: But the other night you had a report on a “killer cop,” a multiple murderer. Does this kind of story reflect new management or old management, a leftover?

Murphy: It’s not a leftover. It was a legitimate story that appeared in the press all over. Some of the stories we had in the past were on because of the players involved. For example, covering a murder of a stripper. Someone here was interested in covering that. That kind of story wouldn’t be done now.

Nolan: Tabloid television, and we’re certainly part of that, has evolved. At one point it covered stories just because you could get them--and there’s a lot of weird stuff out there. The shows told stories that said, “Isn’t it amazing what people will do!” I think our show has matured and the focus now is on selecting stories that have some moral to them. The killer cop story raises the thought that many people have about taking the law in their hands. When you see vigilantism acted out, it puts your thoughts in a very different perspective.

Q: Besides morality and two new executive producers, what other changes have come to “Hard Copy”?

Nolan: We’re looking more for breaking stories, investigative work. (Chief correspondent) Diane Dimond has been way out in front on the Michael Jackson investigation. CBS News talked to her for breaking developments.

Murphy: Our coverage of the recent fires is another example.

Nolan: Most news coverage looks at the big picture, at numbers, where the fire is now. What we look at are the thousand little dramas that happen inside a giant catastrophe, which is numbing.

Murphy: What we’re doing is what I was taught to do back in the ‘70s, when I first got into television news, and we’d see these government programs being introduced and our news director would tell us to go out and find the people involved. I was told, “Don’t tell me about the program, don’t tell me about economic reform, tell me about the people they affect.”

Nolan: On the front page of the Wall Street Journal there’s a lot of dry stuff but in the middle there’s a column that particularizes through individuals the larger issues in the news.

Murphy: In local TV news we called them the kicker stories, stories at the end of the show. “Hard Copy” is a series of kickers. It’s a show with stories that people will talk about the next morning at work. It doesn’t have to be cute, but it can be poignant, sad, profound. We hope to find the element of a story that will get people talking.

Q: The trade press has had stories that your show’s ratings were down and advertisers were staying away in reaction to sensationalism. Is that why the show claims it is changing?

Murphy: You don’t have to look any deeper than our change in executive producers. They are doing what they have done best in the past, covering news.

Nolan: It reflects a sea change in what the audience wants. In the ‘80s there was the attitude of “what’s in it for me?” Now the appetite for television has changed. Compassion was once associated with that L word, liberal social programs. Our show has a sense of compassion now.

Murphy: The show’s ratings were not off. It just climbed dramatically, up 26% over last year.

(The most recent Nielsen ratings had “Hard Copy” in 13th place among syndicated shows, with “Inside Edition” ninth and “Current Affair” 12th.)

Q: Your show claims to have three new venues: consumer advocacy, investigations and entertainment, plus viewer voice mail. What is consumer advocacy?

Murphy: Well, our dog story out of Wisconsin is a perfect example. We got 47,500 calls on it. This man had a puppy farm. We had a couple pose as buyers of dog meat. The videos showed the man shooting a dog in the head. People were outraged. We told viewers if they were bothered we would help them locate their representatives.

Nolan: The story of the flyers’ wives. There were four Air Force flyers killed before their supplemental insurance was to kick in. Here are young widows, their husbands serving their country, and they’re left with bupkas because someone technically wanted to interpret the policies in favor of the companies.

Q: Does the term tabloid show bother you?

Nolan: By tabloid , if you mean stories told in bold headlines in easy-to-read form with better and bolder graphics and pictures, that’s us. If you mean do we make it up about Elvis, Bigfoot and “Aliens Raped My Weed Eater,” then no.

Murphy: I found myself on a panel with people from the National Enquirer and Star. We just had very little areas of agreement. I realized how broad the term is. We prefer to call it reality programming, a magazine program.

Nolan: Whatever the criticism, you rarely hear that we have been wrong, incorrect. Time has proved us right about many stories: Michael Jackson, Amy Fisher, River Phoenix. You can say a lot of things about us but you can’t say we’re wrong a lot.

Q: As the show evolves, could it grow beyond what it is and become another “60 Minutes”?

Murphy: No question in my mind.

Q: In an article Terry Murphy wrote, she said “Hard Copy” doesn’t “separate emotion from fact. We deliver news with a point of view.” What does “news with a point of view” mean?

Murphy: The fires are an example. We showed clearly what the fires did to the people there as opposed to local and network reporters who were giving minute-by-minute reports but who couldn’t give the perspective of the guy watching his home go up in flames. Emotion and facts are all tied together. Emotions are important parts of a story.

Q: Do you see yourselves as advocates, then?

Nolan: When I put on my reporter’s hat, I’m going to do what is right. I make judgments. The pretense that there is no judgment, that putting on a story is purely an objective act, is a lie. From the time that you decide to put something on the front page, from the time you decide how much space you will give it, those are all acts of judgments that reflect a lot of what you are. To pretend that is objective is a lie. That’s the great lie of newsprint.

Q: On the show, the two of you are seen in front of what looks like a working television newsroom. Is that real?

Murphy: That’s a set.

Nolan: The news pit is in the back.