Q & A : There’s No Politics Like Show Politics

Len Sherman’s new book, “The Good, The Bad and the Famous: Celebrities Playing Politics� (Lyle Stuart: $18.95) is likely to affront Hollywood’s liberals and conservatives equally. An irreverent look at Hollywood’s attempts to shape public policy, it names names, twits the politically ridiculous on both sides, and draws upon American history for its conclusions. A graduate of Columbia Law School and a documentary filmmaker, Sherman seems a bemused moralist, his conversation studded with observations like: “George Bush is using Clint Eastwood’s lines. That’s his idea of a great speech? Somehow that’s a bit different from the Gettysburg Address. We’ve really come a way.�

Question: Is there any role for celebrities in politics?

Answer: I think there’s a role for celebrities, but I think it’s a sort of nonpartisan, good-citizenship activity--voter registration, diseases, environment--that kind of thing. And I also think there’s a very partisan role for celebrities, which is simply raising money. If they’re really smart, they’ll recognize that the best thing they could do is raise money for a state race or a congressional race that no one has really heard about.

Q: What’s wrong with celebrities speaking their minds?

A: They’re not responsible for the solutions they propose. If something goes wrong, they go back to Hollywood and make a movie. A nation has to rely on its elected leaders. If you don’t like them, change them. In Hands Across America, some celebrities said, “This isn’t about government, this is about the people .� Well the government is the people, or it should be . . .

It’s a very subtle argument. The celebrities are citizens, and they have a right to do this. In a democracy, we encourage people to speak out. But just because they speak out doesn’t mean we should be listening or having politicians use celebrities as experts. It’s hard to imagine Abraham Lincoln calling up Morgan Fairchild asking for advice. It’s not hard to imagine Alan Cranston doing that.

Q: What’s the relationship between politicians, celebrities and the media that cover them?

A: Celebrities can’t exist without the media. On the cover of my book, there’s (Jane) Fonda, (Sissy) Spacek, and (Jessica) Lange, and they’re testifying before the Senate Subcommittee on Farming because they were in movies about farmers. Do the senators really want to hear what they had to say? No. But they knew the media would show up. Did the media really want to hear what they had to say? No, but it was a good photo opportunity. And did the celebrities really care about the politicians or the media? No, but it was a platform on which to get their message out. Each group has contempt for the other. . . . It’s a very symbiotic relationship. But I think the contempt really demeans the political process. I think the public is much smarter than either the celebrities or the politicians about the whole thing.

Q: Can you see a day when Judd Nelson or other young Brat Pack actor might run for President?

A: I could see a day where he would want to, and I could see a day where people told him he should attempt to take that route. I can’t see a day when he’d be successful at it.

Celebrities, even real smart ones, will say three smart things and the fourth will be so stupid or arrogant that only a celebrity could get away with it. Hollywood is a town where no one supposedly uses drugs any more and where art is more important than money. Everybody agrees to these myths and they live by them. You can get away with it when you’re an entertainer. We used to have court jesters who would come and entertain the king and then when it was time to do adult business the jester would leave. It’s a little different right now.

But remember: It’s one thing to invite someone on your talk show and ask them about their movies, and also ask them about their politics. You’re very polite to them because they’re in show biz. It’s very different when they step into the ring and run for office. . . . And I’m not sure that many celebrity politicians are ready for that. If you want to play the game, you become fair game. That’s a very difficult thing to get used to after years of being treated with kid gloves.

Q: What did you think of all the Earth Day hoopla?

A: It wasn’t a real political rally, like a pro-choice rally. They didn’t announce speakers in Central Park, they announced they would have the B-52s (rock group) . . . While I was walking up the park drive, there was a police siren, and a big line of limos: the celebrities were there. They go to this roped-off area, with a tent and food and drink and all their friends, and they have no understanding of what’s going on, because they’re separated from the event. But then here’s the real problem. Instead of the concert, you’d have an hour of 5- or 10-minute speeches by every celebrity on every sitcom you’d heard of. . . .

I really tried not to make fun of celebrities, because it’s easy to parody what they’re doing. But what does it really do to politics? What does it do to the environmental movement when Tom Cruise gets up there and yells to people on Earth Day to plant a tree, when you know that his favorite avocation is racing cars and he just made a movie about car racing, which is not exactly the most fuel-efficient of all activities? That does not help people like Robert Redford or Ted Danson or Ed Begley Jr. who are serious about it.

Q: You’re a New York guy. What qualifies you to write about Hollywood?

A: Well, I’m writing more about politics than show biz. There are things you could observe more validly from the outside than you could from the inside. As I said, although they’re the real story, they’re not the real point. So it’s not how they relate to each other as much as how they relate to the outside world.

Would Abraham Lincoln be disqualified because Mary Todd was crazy? Today he might be. It would be a scandal. George Washington was not a friendly guy. Today he’d get criticized. He wouldn’t do a guest appearance on “Dynasty� like Henry Kissinger or Gerald Ford.

The Founding Fathers were the celebrities of their day and what did they do? They risked everything to help their nation. They were the best example for the rest of the public to emulate. Celebrities today are not inside the system. They’re privileged outsiders. If they have children out of wedlock, they’re on the cover of People magazine. Those are small (issues), but they’re related to values. Fame has become a separate society. . . . If you’re not famous, you’re not quite alive, or as alive, as famous people.

Q: Do you think that Hollywood only attacks less controversial issues: just say no to drugs, clean up the environment, etc.?

A: I think that celebrities haven’t chosen easier issues, but a lot of press agents have pushed their celebrities into easier issues, like the environment. Many celebrities live in cocoons and just do what they’re told. How can you go wrong saying trees are good for you? You don’t have to do much.

Q: Why does the public not only revere, but protect, celebrities?

A: Show business has become a culture as much as an industry, and somehow it’s perceived as one of our most valuable industries. If you watch the “Donahue� show and they have a politician on, they treat him skeptically. Which is healthy. However, the next day, same setting, if they have a celebrity on who will talk about being Cleopatra 2,000 years ago, they’ll think this is wonderful and treat her with adoration. What’s the message? The message is, one person is better than the other, one person is better liked than the other, and which person would you rather be?

I really don’t want to pick on celebrities, but that’s not good enough for this country. We’ve had such incredible leadership, and a leader is not just what he says, but how he lives. Every nation has a cyclical history of growth and decline. We’re on the decline side. It’s not the celebrities’ fault, but it is indicative of where our values are. A country gets what it deserves. If the most important thing you can be in this country is a celebrity, an actor, then you’ll have an actor for a President.